[Interviewers:] We're here interviewing Geraldine. It's October 16, 2006. I'm just going to ask Geraldine to introduce herself.

[Manson:] Geraldine Manson, Snuneymuxw Elders' Cultural Coordinator.

[Interviewers:] Geraldine is going to talk to us today about the passing of the seasons in the Nanaimo estuary. My first question is: what is your favourite, or the most meaningful season for you in the Nanaimo region?

[Manson:] The most favourite season for me specifically would be the fall season.

[Interviewers:] What is special about fall?

[Manson:] The fall season is when the salmon comes up to the river and you get to notice all those who have smoke-houses in the community have them up, and there's smoke coming out of them. You can smell the aroma in the air; it smells like salmon getting smoked.

[Interviewers:] Can you tell us about a childhood memory that you have of the different times of year in Nanaimo?

[Manson:] My childhood memory of the different seasons here in Nanaimo would be the summer time. Summer as a young girl, we used to be able to go pick berries with my mother. We would pick real wild blackberries, we would help her with that, and huckleberries. We used to get those other berries, and she used to mix them together and make huckleberry pie. That was awesome.

[Interviewers:] So food is a really important part of the passing of the seasons. Traditionally, what types of foods would be hunted or harvested in this part of the world?

[Manson:] My husband, when he was a young boy, his father used to take him over to Valdes and "..." Island and Mudge Island back when he was young, about 10, to go hunting deer. At the same time, they'd be harvesting the clams of the season then. And they'd come home, and the deer was a food that was, how do you say, was processed in many ways. Whether it was for can, I remember them doing it canned, and the other part they'd freeze it. But it wasn't only the meat they went for; it was also the deer skin. And they used deer hooves for making drums and rattles.

[Interviewers:] Do people still follow the seasons in the same way, in terms of providing for their families?

[Manson:] They certainly do. I shouldn't say not all families are fortunate, there are maybe a handful now that still use the hunting and the fishing and the harvesting of shellfish for their diet here, and don't rely on anything but that.

[Interviewers:] There are lots of other stories that people tell about the passing of the seasons, and on the Nanaimo River estuary, there was a seasonal movement to different village sites. Could you maybe tell us some stories about that aspect of life?

[Manson:] My great-grandmother, her name was Ts'tassia, her name I carry, and she was a young girl when her grandmother told her the stories of when they used to live in Departure Bay. They used to get up in different seasons, there were different locations to travel to. In the spring through summer, they headed over to Gabriola Island in False Narrows there, where they would harvest the clams and gather the seaweed. They even had, it must be going to the fall though, because she talked about that kind of thing, about how they would have their own little areas where they set the traps for the ducks and that on the beach, so I know that. And then, at a later time of year, getting close to the nineteen hundreds, nineteen hundred and on, the Elders then travel up the Fraser River, where they did their summer fishing, and they actually had a camp over there that they would go every season to the same location. So today, that nation is known as the Katzie Nation. And the Katzie refer to Snuneymuxw people as that used to be your village site on that island over there. So they acknowledge that today.

[Interviewers:] Can you explain the building of the plank houses and how those were moved to different village sites?

[Manson:] The stories that my mother-in-law told me about the longhouses that used to be down in Departure Bay / Stewart Avenue, were built so they would be able to just take the planks off and add them onto canoe or however they transported them from one location to another. So whenever they left a village, all the planks came down, just like how we dismantle a tent today, maybe. They had a technique to dismantle the planks, place them onto the large canoes, and bring it to their next location, where the beams would be standing already, and they'd just have to add the planks. So you knew, from Departure Bay over to Gabriola for instance, the same size structure was built for that plank to be able to be used at the next site.

[Interviewers:] Who participated in the putting up of the planks?

[Manson:] It was always the men, from what I hear through my mother-in-law. The men were the ones that travelled and did all that. The woman's role in setting up camp was to make sure that they had all their utensils they needed, whether it was to go harvesting for the shellfish, or whether it was having all the tools necessary so that when the men came back from fishing or hunting, they had that. Their role, and it probably still happens today in some households, the woman did the ground work within the home, and the men went and provided whatever sustenance they were getting at that time.

[Interviewers:] How did young people in the community learn to take on these seasonal responsibilities?

[Manson:] Through training. Like what my husband did with his father. He trained him, showed him, taught him how to hunt, go fishing. My brother-in-law today, he still carries on that trade of fishing; he's a commercial fisherman. He owns his own gillnet. My husband, the hunter, carried on that skill of hunting. It went through the father, but the father probably got taught by the grandfather, they say, way back then, but I don't know.

[Interviewers:] What other aspects of life in the Nanaimo region can you convey? Maybe something about the plant life, or the changes in the weather patterns that are important to the stories and the history of the Snuneymuxw.

[Manson:] If you talk about plants, the medicinal plants, we call the original, the "native plants" are less and less, due to development, due to new roads being built. For instance, "..." is one location that Auntie Ellen brought me to go walk through, to show where to plant, that are there, and some aren't there anymore. And the reason why they're not there anymore is because development took place and they can't be transplanted. So there are medicinal plants available, but you have to go searching high and low. And then Auntie Ellen said there are certain seasons that you need to go and look for these plants. And now we're having to go where there's no human activity for us to be able to seek what we're looking for. And even that is hard to find because the logging now, the logging companies up in the mountains area, go and log, and they don't realize that some of the native plants are being destroyed, and cannot be transplanted.

[Interviewers:] Could you share with us some of the words in Hal'q'umin'um' that relate to the different times of year or different things that would take place at different times of year?

[Manson:] Summertime is "..." That means summer.

Springtime is called "..."and it's named after the frog, because the frog comes out in the springtime. And being in the longhouse, they say, well, the longhouse season's over now. You lost your voice because the frog's here. So that's "...". So that's two I know very well. The other ones, I can't name off the top of my head because I'd have to read it first. But those are two ones I know.

[Interviewers:] I was wondering if there were any games that children traditionally played that are specific to this area that you know of. Are there any that are specific to Snuneymuxw people?

[Manson:] The games are not specific, because they are all over now. It began with Lahal, the bone game, and we have two, maybe three families that carry on that tradition and travel to those bone games, and stay with it. The other one is through lacrosse. Lacrosse is a game that goes way back to our Elders' times. And canoe pulling is the other one. It's a tradition here. If you go throughout the community, there are maybe five canoes, different families own, eleven-man. It's been a practice as far back as I can remember. I know our canoe is quite old.

[Interviewers:] How is canoe pulling different from canoe racing?

[Manson:] Canoe racing and canoe pulling is the same.

[Interviewers:] Can you tell me anything specific about how lacrosse is important in the community? Is it played just within the community, or are lots of people playing? (I know Nanaimo has a team.) You said it reaches far back in Nanaimo; are there things that people in the community talk about, like a "great lacrosse player of the last century"? That kind of thing?

[Manson:] As you know, the Nanaimo civic arena is now going down. It's being destroyed. Last month they had a get-together with all the old-timers of lacrosse. Uncle Joe is a member here, and he played lacrosse when he was young. He was the youngest of his brothers, but he played, and they got to Mann Cup or something like that. There's photos, I think Lorraine may have them. Lacrosse was that far back, probably farther than that, I only know through Uncle Joe. And today it stems from our younger generation still continue on that sport, and now we have women, young girls, playing that sport.

[Interviewers:] This is unrelated, I'm just remembering something I was reading on the Jack Point petroglyph. I had read something about, and this might be a relative of yours, Emily Manson, said she remembered the Jack Point petroglyph when it was still there in Jack Point, was used in rituals and ceremonies for when the salmon returned, even up to the time when the missionaries came, because of the way she worded it. And I'm just wondering if you have any particular family stories about that particular petroglyph?

[Manson:] The salmon petroglyph that you refer to is at the Nanaimo District Museum now, and it was moved from a site over on Jack's Point. Late Anderson Tommy used to share stories and later Anderson Tommy was a very cultural, brought up in the longhouse, individual. He shared his story about the salmon ceremony that used to take place during the four seasons. The image of the rock carries many images of different species of salmon. So there had to be a ritual that took place, and an individual that did it. Today you know him as a "shaman," but there's another word in our language, that I would refer that person with that skill, that gift of being able to use those images and do the work of having the, whatever species it is, to return safely back to the estuary, or up to the river. That ceremony continued for some time, until it was probably removed from Jack's Point. You see, Jack's Point is land that is known to us as First Nations', but when the Europeans came over, I forgot what was built over there, but anyways, a family got to own that point. They feared for the destruction of that [petroglyph], so they brought it over to the Museum, and that's how it got there.

[Interviewers:] Was it a First Nations' family?

[Manson:] No.

[Interviewers:] I understand there will be some discussion within the community about what will happen with that petroglyph? Whether it will come back here... Can you say anything about that?

[Manson:] The only information I can share with you at this time about the salmon petroglyph rock is that we have the opportunity to bring it back to a location wherever we choose to. At the moment we're talking to the Elders as to where that location may be. They're interested in making a replica of that rock, a casting of it so they can keep, but we're looking at where is the best-suited place where it wouldn't be destroyed. And maybe continue for the younger generation, for whomever is in that role of "spiritualism" to learn about that rock and bring the life back into the estuary.

[Interviewers:] On that note, I wanted to ask you if the location of the petroglyph is as important as what the petroglyph depicts, in terms of its role and its power?

[Manson:] That was a discussion that we had with the Elders some time ago, "is the location significant to wherever we may bring it?", and they said yeah. Because one of the discussions was to bring the salmon petroglyph here to the administration building, and they said no. The rock can still be useful and brought back to life by someone trained in doing the ceremonies again. So their location is really important, to be either around the estuary, or along the river.

[Interviewers:] If there was one thing that people from outside your community could learn about the Snuneymuxw, what would that be?

[Manson:] That we are very cultural, traditional. We do have traditional values, or individuals that non-natives or newcomers to the area would be able to sit down and understand who we are. We may be urban, we may be a little bit rural, but there are a few families in the community that are passing down the history, passing down the language, through songs and through actually becoming a fluent speaker. To be understanding the protocol of our nation to other nations. Of respecting our community, when there's a need, a crisis, we become one. And with no hesitation, we become one. Even if we're in disagreement with another family, whenever there's a crisis, the community just comes together. It forgets anything that's happening outside, to come together just for that support.